Love And Marriage (And Why The Former Is Not Enough For The Latter)
March 6th, 2010 | 
Author: “To the unmarried and to the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do.”?
(1 Corinthians 7:8)
The immortal words of St. Paul, who quite possibly had experienced the pain of separation and divorce first hand prior to penning these words, and who certainly dealt with relationship breakdowns in every church he pastored.
I seem to be at that stage of life now where all my friends are getting divorced. I’ve long passed that stage where all my friends are having their 21st’s. And I’ve passed the stage where they are all getting married, and even the one where my friends are all having children. Now I’m up to the ‘all my friends are getting divorced’ stage. I suppose the only one left after this is the ‘all my friends are dying’ stage. Not much to look forward to really.
Of course in terms of divorce I led the way. I managed to stuff up my marriage long before almost any of my peers. It’s nothing to be proud of, but at least it means that no one needs fear that I’m going to judge them. Who me? I don’t think so.
The disturbing thing for me at the moment is that it seems to be all the couples that I’ve most looked up to as couples that are now falling apart as couples!
When it come to some of the couples I know – such as where the guy deliberately gets the girl pregnant because he figures that having a child will give him the motivation to give up is heroin habit – I sort of expect those marriages to last only a couple of years at best. And yet it’s not those couples that are falling apart. It’s the marriages made up of men I admire for their integrity and courage, who are married to women who are loyal, nurturing and understanding. And most of these people are good, solid, church-going Christian folk. It’s not supposed to happen this way!
I was talking to a girl recently whose relationship had only just broken up after some 20 years of marriage. She was not a part of the church and said that she’d never be. For her the final proof of the non-existence of God was the way in which men and women had evolved with an in-built incompatibility. Her analysis was simple but profound. Men have evolved as creatures that need only to eat and mate. Women have evolved as creatures that need to nurture and nestle. Hence, not surprisingly, we find that men can’t handle monogamy and that women can’t live without it. Marriages are thus biologically doomed to failure from the outset, and the statistics on modern marriages would seem to bear her out. How could a loving God have created men and women in such a way that they were genetically geared towards their mutual destruction?
It’s a good question. Every male knows that his biological drives are not geared towards monogamy ? not lifelong monogamy at any rate. Conversely, it is unrealistic to expect women to settle for anything less than monogamy in today’s society. Does this mean that God is cruel, or is there something in the whole marriage concept that we’ve missed?
I wonder if at the heart of the problem is the assumption that we all make? That marriage is supposed to make us happy. Indeed, I suspect that most of us believe that the institution of marriage was brought into being for the very purpose of making us happy.
Weren’t we all brought up to believe that love and marriage go together like horse and carriage, and that the phrase ‘they got married’ should generally be followed by the accompanying phrase ‘and they lived happily ever after’? Perhaps that’s the problem. Perhaps we need to look beyond musicals and fairy tales to find a basis for our adult relationships.
I don’t think any of us seriously imagines that our institution of marriage came about because some individual had a ‘bright idea’ one day about how he could make everybody happy. Marriage is a social institution, and social institutions are developed because they serve a social purpose, not because they bring personal fulfillment to certain individuals within the community. Whether or not you believe God created marriage makes no difference. If He did, God did it for the sake of the community as a whole and not for the sake satisfying every individual’s social, emotional and sexual needs.
It makes sense when you think about it. What is the purpose of marriage? To create a stronger society. Strong marriages create strong families who build a stronger community. Marriages contribute stability. They contribute structure. And most importantly, marriages contribute children.
Read through your Old Testament and you’ll get the feel for what marriage is all about. Marriage is all-important because without marriages there are no children and without children there is no army. This is why baby boys are more valued than are baby girls. This is why gays get such a hard time. This is why childlessness is such a curse, and why polygamy is a far better alternative than singleness. It’s not because the individuals involved prefer it that way. Marriages are there for the sake of the community first and foremost. If an individual finds satisfaction in his or her marriage, then that’s a bonus.
So how come every time someone says ‘I’m not happy in my marriage’ we treat it as if something is horribly wrong? If someone expresses dissatisfaction with other social institutions, such as the government or the taxation system.. we don’t normally get too worked up. Maybe it should be the other way round? Maybe when we hear someone speak of their joy in marriage we should react as if they were speaking of their love of Queen and country.. giving them a sort of quizzical smile that expresses admiration without empathy.
I suppose the truth is somewhere between these extremes. Nobody would deny that the institution of marriage can be of some assistance in helping us to satisfy our individual social, emotional, and sexual needs. The truth is though that no marriage is ever going to satisfy all of those needs and desires. We human beings just weren’t created to have all our needs for companionship, security and intimacy met by one other solitary individual. We need a community.
This brings us to the positive side of the marriage-community equation. Marriages exist for the sake of the community as a whole. That’s the bad news if you thought that your marriage existed for the sake of your individual happiness. On the other hand though, the community exists to meet those needs we all have as individuals. That’s the good news.
Our individual needs for companionship, security and intimacy can be met. They just can’t be met by one solitary person. We have to learn to draw upon the group for our sustenance, and find support and affection from a variety of people within the community. I think that’s a large part of what church is supposed to be about.
So where does this leave us? Is there any hope for the modern marriage? Not so long as people look to marriage as a means to making all their dreams come true. Not so long as individual men and women look to their partners to satisfy all of their social, emotional and sexual needs. Not so long as we demand that our marriages make us happy.
Yet what would happen if we all began to approach marriage in an entirely different way. What if we began to look at our marriages as being the most significant contribution we could make to the broader community?
What if we saw the importance of our roles as parents in terms of the great good that could be achieved in the community if we bring up our children to be strong and capable? What if we stopped assessing our partners and our children in terms of the amount of satisfaction they bring us, and were able to see those relationships as being our gifts to humanity? Perhaps then we’d find ourselves saying things like ‘well, I don’t get on brilliantly with my wife, but I think we’ve managed to achieve some fine things together and that the world is a better place for our union, and perhaps that’s more important than my individual happiness’.
OK. That’s a long way from where we’re currently at in this society, but I have a feeling that it would be a better place to be.
Dave Smith
http://www.articlesbase.com/marriage-articles/love-and-marriage-and-why-the-former-is-not-enough-for-the-latter-96908.html
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Posted in Social Fear
Atheists: since homosexual sex is "normal" and "equal" to heterosexual sex, why is incest then excluded?
I am told day after day by the media, by the people at Yahoo! Answers, and all my colleagues at work that I am supposed to not at all get grossed out by homosexual sex and believe that sex between a man and a man is just as beautiful as sex between a man and a woman like my hubby and me. I understand that you believe that gender shouldn’t matter for marriages and that my getting grossed out at this behavior is not a good reason for me or anyone else to be against it. But how come when anyone has incest you think that they are doing something unspeakably gross and unnatural? You are against incest for the same reason I am against homosexual sex (and incest for that matter): you are disgusted by it and because of your disgust you would not have other people doing it. Now I know you are going to say something like: but incest is also wrong because of the genetically corrupt children it can create and because it can work towards confusing family roles and lines. Yet the former does not apply when you have two people of the same sex doing incest or when people of opposite genders get married promising in law that they will not have children (they can even go as far as getting one of the partners sterilized if need be). The latter is also highly subjective just like your disgust of incest. Homosexual sex can create confusion between genders and likewise incest can create confusion between family lines. But why should these things matter if two people love one another enough that they can raise a healthy family (adopted children)? Are you saying that because you want to keep family roles distinct, you would quench the incestuous flame of love as I would the homosexual flame of love? Think about this.
Incest increases the likelyhood of retardation since people among the same family are more likely to have the same damaged/malformed recessive genes. Their children will then often get a pair of these damaged genes, one set from each parent, and be seriously disabled, killed, or have any number of other genetic deseases. Homosexual activities don’t produce children to be messed up and as such do no harm.
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no it isnt…skip the rant
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If adults want to engage in incest, go ahead…I could care less as long as its consensual.
I honestly dont care what people do in their bedrooms (or backseats for that matter) as long as its between consenting adults.
Edit: While I would rely upon the whole deformities in the potential kids bit…I dont think thats valid in that people who have the potential to have kids with deformities are still allowed to breed.
Even if its almost definite that a kid will inherit a disease, that fetus isnt terminated nor are the parents forbidden to have that kid etc.
And whether or not I think incest is disgusting, should have no bearing on dictating to others whether or not they can do it or not.
I think its disgusting that people kiss in public…should I demand everyone stop doing that just to make me less disgusted?
And of course people are going to mention pedophilla except the glaze over the most important element: consent.
Children cannot consent to sex especially with adults.
While yes, personally I do find it deplorable and disgusting, notice how the argument is based on an objective and legal term: consent.
If we try to outlaw everything that we dont like or find gross or icky etc. then we’re in for chaos.
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Atheist
I suggest you look up the genetic defects that arise as a result of inbreeding, you ignorant fool.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding
I’m not even going to read that.
I hope you’re a troll but it is sadly hard to tell. You might just be unforgivably stupid.
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True atheists have no code of ethics or morals. One day they will find out how wrong they are.
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let’s see, you are equating homosexuality to incest . . . . um. . . .
you really should get out more often.
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I’m an atheist and don’t think that homosexuality is normal in any way shape or form. And incest is disgusting.
There are no other species on this planet that solely practice or live in homosexual relationships.
Even the "gay" penguins in the SF zoo broke up when another female was added to the pen.
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Incest increases the probability of recessive genes expressing themselves causing birth defects including mental retardation, and other genetic disorders.
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An atheist perspective.
Incest hurts other people, particularly children
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Christian thumbs down, lol, what type of people are you?
If you believe in the bible, incest is perfectly ok.
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truth is…as long as both parties are able to legally give consent, I don’t care who choses to do what. in cases of incest though, we have to take into account the suffering of the potential offspring of such unions.
and it’s spelled "disgust", not "discust"
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medical issues to offspring is the reason
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Given Duban’s answer, I’m inclined to think homosexuals were products of incest.
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hah, and they say religious people don’t lack common sense.
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Homosexual sex won’t cause genetic mutations. Incest will.
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Uh, there are genetic reasons for not encouraging incestuous relationships.
If those didn’t exist, I would be grossed out by the idea of it when I put myself in the same situation, but it wouldn’t affect how I treated a person or whether I thought they should be allowed to marry. Even as things are now, I wouldn’t hate someone for being in an incestuous relationship if it was consensual and they had no plans of reproducing, just because I’m not into the idea of an incestuous relationship for myself.
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I honestly don’t care what two consenting adults are doing in bed. It’s none of my business.
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If you get confused about your gender because your neighbor is homosexual then you need more help than yahoo answers can give you. Incest is wrong because of the genetic consequences and the fact that in most cases I would say that there is an element of coercion. However if you want to sleep with your brother, and you are using protection, and it is consensual, you are not hurting anyone so what do I care. And hey the bible says incest is okay, so why not right?
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Why should you concern yourself what anyone does sexually, once they are 18 and consenting? IT’S NOT YOUR BUSINESS!!!!!
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Are you from West Virginia? You are, aren’t you?
It was the whole "quench the inestuous flame of love" that gave it away.
Wait – maybe that’s Arkansas….
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If two consenting family members want to date, then I’m not going to stop them. However, most cases of incest also fall under the category of sexual abuse.
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There is a big difference between homosexuality and incest.
Incest has several points against:
1 If children come from the union then they may well have genetic problems
2 If the relationship is between a parent or other older and a child then it is one of power as well. This is as unacceptable as with say – teacher and student
By the way, if you want to be ‘grossed out’ by homosexual love, that is your choice and that is fine. However it is not your individual reaction that is the problem, it is when that becomes an attack on gay people by creating laws .
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incest will be normal as soon as the homosex is moving towards and is equals to hetero. What a life of a dog…and why worry about incest when you are a dog.
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All sex is gross and yucky
We should just make it illegal alltogether and pro create through test tubes.
Think of all the rubber, hand soap and laundry detergent we could save!!
THINK ABOUT IT….
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As long as it’s consensual, who the hell cares what someone else’s opinion is…
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I suppose there is more chance of exploitation between family members, like you might feel the need to submit to daddy to gain his approval and obviously there is the issue of inbreeding, but aside from that if two adult siblings or whatever want to do jiggy jig together then why not?
I don’t have a problem with it.
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They like to say that incest creates retarded children and then use the comparison of the animal kingdom to their homosexual acts. They actually used fleas and bees to show that homosexuality is normal. How can you even have any respect for someone who thinks like that?
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Other than the obvious reasons that EVERYONE else has stated her I don’t think that we as humans have a right to tell each other what is right or wrong to do between two consenting adults. Why is that so hard to understand. I am not going to go out and grab my sister for a romp but hey to each their own. As long as it is consenting adults.
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And what if Adolf Hitler stood up and said "Sex between Jews and Christians makes me sick the same way homosexual unions make you sick. I think marriage between Christians and Jews should be forbidden, just as you think gay marriage should be." … What would you say to that, hm?
Apples and oranges. You’re trying to rationalize your bigotry, but you can’t.
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but Islam has PROOF of being true unlike any other faith. Jesus fell on his face and prayed to God in the bible..so how can he be God?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iOy4rOeqQo&feature=PlayList&p=2DDD34749F3A5EDE&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8JiVxyN7-w
moses didnt think of Jesus as God when he prayed u know
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homo is a mental illness. fear of absence of a penis
I don’t care who you have sex with, do whatever you want, just don’t have an incest baby (for obvious reasons). Consenting adults may do with each other whatever they please, so long as it doesn’t affect a third party (like a baby); that’s where it stops being "your business".
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their plea is the same one that is used by pedophiles: they simply can’t control who they are attracted to.
the counterargument to that is that children can’t give consent, because they are not considered full persons. which is, oddly enough, the same rationale used to justify aborting fetuses: if they can’t consent, they don’t have any rights. if they don’t have any rights, they can be removed as an inconvenience.
when God destroyed Sodom, it wasn’t specifically for the sexual act itself, but for their gross violations of decency and hospitality against the aliens among them, who had no power, no rights, no property, no ties to protect them from the vile whims of the Sodomites.
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If you believe the Bible to be true….you believe in Adam and Eve, Cane and Able, etc….
So, you must believe in incest…it is how the Biblical world was created…we all came from Adam and Eve, and their offspring, who pro-created with their offspring…..and so on, and so on.
Nonetheless, this is the same argument people used against interracial marriage…that disgusted some…so, it was outlawed….
Quite honestly, two obese people of any gender having sex, disgusts me…so, should we say fat people shouldn’t have sex, because it offends me?
So, what two consenting adults want to do in the privacy of their own home, is their own business….they will answer one day for their deeds, and I will answer for mine.
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Unlike homosexual sex, there is a genetic reason supporting an incest taboo – just look at the incidence of hemophila in certain royal families of Europe…
(And no explaination of incest involving underage children should be necessary, I would hope…)
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Because Incest leads to mental retardation, and physical deformities.
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Not an atheist, but:
I think any action should be judged by carefully examining all of it’s consequences. When you do that, you find that almost nothing can be labeled exclusively as ‘good’ or ‘bad’. Every action has at least some outcomes that can be considered positive or negative.
I would say homosexual sex is mostly positive. It helps join people together in love, with very few drawbacks. Incest is a little bit more complicated and has negative outcomes that usually outweigh the positive ones, such as possible genetic difficulties in children resulting from incestuous sex, the damaging of family relationships, and the activation of the natural aversion most people feel in that situation. But an incestuous relationship might still be a beneficial loving relationship under the right circumstances. Not everybody feels that aversion, and in some cases, like between cousins, the chances for a genetic problem is very limited.
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Perfect example! Thank you so much for posting this. I hope some of the people who run around condemning people for being "homophobes" realise their hypocrisy because they themselves are probably "incestophobes".
However, I have NOTHING against incestous couples. As long as they don’t have any children! Inbreeding is wrong because it’s proven beyond doubt that inbred children are liable to a whole range of problems, but incestuous couples that don’t have biological children are A-ok by me!
If two consenting adults ("consenting adults" being the operative phrase) love each other, then I don’t see the problem. People always use the whole "love is blind" thing to justify homosexuality, so why it does not also justify incest I don’t know.
Great point though. GREAT POINT.
*stars*
EDIT: I’m glad that a number of people on here agree with me that people’s sex lives are their business.
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Actually it was quite common a long time ago for cousins to marry and have children. It is scientifically proven that children who are born of cousins have about the same likelihood of retardation as children born of people who are not in the same family. For clarification, cousin marriage is actually legal in most states in the US. If you believe in Adam and Eve, then all relationships would be incestuous, since we all share them as common ancestors. If you really think about sex, it’s actually pretty gross no matter what. It’s dirty (sweat, bodily fluids, etc.), but we accept it as a beautiful expression of love. Whether or not someone intends to create children through sex (using contraceptives, homosexual, etc.) it’s still an expression of love, and therefore beautiful. The only type of sex that I feel is disgusting is when one partner is unwilling, incapable of saying no, or doesn’t realize what is actually happening (rape, sex with children). If it is consensual sex, no matter who it is with, and regardless of if I would do it myself, I see nothing wrong with it.
By the way, I am not atheist. I consider myself to be a part of universal religion, that is, I accept all bona fide religions. My main method of worship is Vaishnava (Hare Krishna).
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http://sex.scoop.co.nz/2009/08/17/nurse-blair-bishop-my-cousins-are-having-sex/#more-163
http://www.infoniac.com/science/two-first-cousin-marriage.html
http://marriage.about.com/cs/marriagelicenses/a/cousin.htm
Need advice? http://christiesadvice.blogspot.com
" that my getting grossed out at this behavior is not a good reason for me or anyone else to be against it."
That’s the crux of it right there.
I don’t consider homosexual sex "beautiful"–I consider it "none of my business"
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Sexual behaviour between two same-sexed people does not produce a retarded child. THAT is why it is illegal.
If someone wants to shag their sister, go for it.. just wear a condom.
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why do you presume its an atheist issue?
its a social issue , not a specific group in soceity, but all of soceity
soceity makes the rules up, we jsut folow
incest is natural, i dont deny it, never have
it jsut isnt socaly acceptabe, and is bad for the gene pool
thats it, very simple
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You are assuming everyone excludes incest. Also, just because it disgusts you what business is it of yours. There are many couples who probably do things with each other you would find disgusting are you going to include them in people who are not allowed to do what you don’t like.
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Good point, I feel the same way. Why not make adultry a lifestyle, or any other sin. Since homosexuals can take their sin and make it okay then why not the rest of us?
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ok, lady. whatever.
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